A trip to the Vatican did nothing to convert me back
They say there are two topics you shouldn't discuss over dinner: politics and religion. To my mind, the two topics should be toilets and sex, but each to their own.
Today I want to talk about religion (it's unlikely you'll hear me talk about politics here).
I was raised a Catholic. Baptised as a baby, attended Catholic schools, went to church regularly with my family; the whole thing.
But, as soon as I left school, that was that. No more churches (except for weddings, funerals and beautiful old churches when travelling), no pretending to believe in something that never quite sat right with me.
All those years of attending church and school masses, all that chanting of the same prayers over and over - none of it was me. Even in early primary school, I remember sitting in church (and standing, then sitting, then kneeling, then standing...) wondering why.
Why was everyone chanting along? Did it mean anything to any of them? Or were they just saying memorised words like I was?
I learnt a lot about religion along the way - thirteen years of a Catholic education will do that - and I know that millions of people around the world believe in some form of religion. I know that some take great comfort in it, some live and breathe it, and others like being part of something bigger than themselves.
But me? No. It just isn't me.
We haven't baptised Abbey, because I don't believe in making someone part of a religion without then following through on it - teaching them about it and raising them as part of that community. I couldn't make that commitment; it would have been hypocritical. Instead, I want her to learn about all religions from an outside perspective, to know what it all means. Knowledge is understanding.
And if, one day, she decides to join a religion, all I will ask is that she does so with a full understanding of what it involves.
It's my choice not to practice my religion, and it's an educated decision. That's all I want for my daughter too: to make informed decisions.
Megan
I feel the same way about Riley. Having been raised in a religion, I feel that a choice after the fact isn't a real choice. Because so much is coloured by your childhood and experiences. It can be hard to know if you really feel a certain way, or if you feel that way because you were raised to. If that makes any sense at all?
ReplyDeleteWe are on the same page as well round our house. Eventually, we'll talk about world religions with our kids, but for now we even sign off for my kindy son to have free time during scripture (at his public school).
ReplyDeleteMy life mirrors yours, Megan. I, too, was 'born a Catholic' (well, what would you expect with a name like O'Neill), went to a Catholic school in far north Queensland. While I lived at home until I was 19, I went to Sunday Mass (most times under protest because I would have rather stay in bed and read a book).
ReplyDeleteI didn't feel a strong connection to religion, but the influence was strong. I have to add my mum and dad are good people who thought they were doing the right thing. It wasn't until I left home and travelled the world that I stopped going to church - mainly because I could.
Then, I met my husband who is a scientist, and an atheist. Suddenly, the penny dropped. More than any other person I'd met who professed to be good Christians (except my parents), my husband actually thought and studied and went out and fought the good fight (verbally, and in political rallies etc) for human rights for dispossessed people like indigenous Australians, for workers rights, against the environmental destruction of our beautiful country and many other causes. And he was an atheist.
We had arguments about whether there was a God etc, and before long, I had to agree with him, there did not have to be at all. I'm very comfortable with it now, because at heart, I knew I was questioning the logic for many years.
Our son, David was not baptised, but we did have a naming ceremony and a "Welcome into the world party". Our poet friend, Ross Clark officially welcome him - with a poem especially in David's honour. It was a fantastic occasion and made so much sense.
Our son has never had the need of a god, of any type, but he does have good ethics and morals and he cares about people. He is now 23 and in the last week of his HOnours degree in Physics, and he is a good man. What more could we ask?
Sorry, this has ended up a long post. I admire your courage in speaking out - a lot of people in this country are hardly aware there was many of us who don't need to believe in any god to live as good human beings.
Now, c'mon, let's have a conversation about politics too!!
Both hubby and I were raised in wacko religious households... he in a fundamentalist environment (his parents disowned him when he married me... not of their yolk) and me?... father was a baptist minister.. turned alcoholic... turned abandoner... a destructive, miserable, childhood... still have nightmares over it!
ReplyDeleteHubby and I are both scientists. It took a while for us to let go of the ideologies ingrained in our DNA based on our upbringing (like everyone)... hence you are the religion of where you are born...it has nothing to do with instrinsic truth, purely geographical and social.
When you discover that the answer to the following question is not what you think it is and that the entire story you believed in was not even original, that's when you start on your real life's journey. If only people examined the HISTORY of what they believe in.
Here's the question: WHO AM I? I was born on December the 25th, by immaculate conception, from a virgin, and had wise men visit my birth, and give me gold, frankincense and myrrh, did miracles in my life such as raising the dead, making blind to see, I was baptised, crucified, died for 3 days, and rose again to be the saviour of mankind. Who am I?
I am: Bachus, Mattis, Osiris, and a score of other saviour gods predating Jesus Christ. This is an interesting historical fact and was debated openly in correspondence by early church fathers prior to the exisiting 66 book canon which is today's bible... and where it was called (by the followers of the JC story) diabolical mimicry.
That is the question that started me on my journey of finding out the simple facts, which are wilfully ignored by most. I was just not prepared to believe in a story that was almost 100% plagiarised from pre-exisiting cultures. A-M xx
I too was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school butt parents themselves were non-practicing. I didn't understand why I had to be subjected to it. We had fierce debates about it around the dinner table. The only good thing my dad ever did in being part of my life was teach me the importance of intellectual rigor in having a debate Ie,
ReplyDeleteKnow what you're criticizing before you criticize it. And because of my schooling I know what I don't believe or want to make part of my every day world. Like you Megan it never sat well with me, I asked a lot of uncomfortable questions of my religion teachers at school ad the unfeeling way in which prayer was recited did nothing at all to convince me it was anything other than "the opiate of the masses". Though I do respect people immensely who hold so firm to their beliefs. I don't know what I believe & know that will be a journey I travel my life through in order to sort that out. Like Sheryl I am married to a scientist so even if I wanted to baptize the Bebito I'd have an uphill battle on my hands. I want him to have an education in religion so he can make those decisions when he is ready. I will teach him about organized religion nut more than that I want to raise him with the types of morals that mean he will, "do unto others as he would have done unto him" and all manner of wonderful teaching that comes from the good parts of religious belief.
well seeing that my folks always would pressure me (as they were jewish) we would always go to synagogue i was so bored out of my brain. They even sent me to a cathlic school? go figure .
ReplyDeleteAnyway they even went as far as sending me overseas to bloody Israel so i could meet a nice boy in the army?? LOL.. Not me was not in the least intrested sights were great (1990/91 after 10 weeks got bored and came home. Married an Athiest and feel better for it. never the less the folks hate the son in law Good i say we hate them :-P
Well, as you know, I chose to become a Catholic when I was in my 20s. I had the opposite upbringing to you (almost) - my parents were Church of England, but we never went to church. I always found myself interested in religion - even taking myself off to Church with my friend every Sunday when I was quite young - and eventually, felt that I was presented with a path to become Catholic.
ReplyDeleteYou know..I often hear of people who were brought up Catholic, went to church all the time and broke away from it. I kind of think it was because they felt they weren't given a choice, perhaps, and I think the church was *very* different 20, 30 years ago. Very fire & brimstone at times!
Now, it's a very positive experience for our boys I believe, and although we go must weekends (altho, have been a bit absent as of late with other things on), I think it's ok we don't go every. single. week. because I don't want them to later on feel it was something they were 'forced' to do.
I guess, in time, they will make up their own mind, but for now, I choose for them to follow our religion, and I love the community feel our local parish gives us (as well as the parish school) and our priest is young and hip and FUN! (That makes all the difference!)
Each to their own, I say. Do what feels right for you. xxx
Church gave me a very strong community feel, now that my catholic blood has dried up I do think my children miss out on the joy I had of that community, running around the church yard every Sunday, mid night mass, the celebrations that provided regular catchups with an extended catholic family, 25 kids provides lots of first communions etc.However the Pope is quite evil in my mind, the rules are not progressive and after farewelling my three year old nephew to God, I just can't believe anymore that a forgiving loving God would do this to my fabulous family.
ReplyDeleteMy girls are christened into the Church and I explain the story of Christmas to them, and Easter, for what they can understand, but it looks like that will be as much religion as they get.
I was baptised as a Catholic, but it was never really imposed on me. Mum and dad made me go to church once when I was 11, where I got my first migraine during the sermon and was never made to go back! I went to Anglican and Baptist schools, and spent weekly chapel sneaking off to Maccas. Naughty.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience (and I am NOT stereotyping here, only speaking from my own experience), the religious people that I have come across through my years at school were very "God-is-real-and-you-are-not-allowed-to-believe-otherwise". I really resented the idea of people forcing their beliefs down the throat's of others.
I have a lot of respect people who are religious but realise that other people may not believe the same things. Each to their own, I say.
Great post xx
Very interesting post, brings up a lot of discussion, which is great!
ReplyDeleteMy childhood was just like yours except I didn't go to Catholic schools because there weren't any close enough. But we were at Mass every weekend. Then I went to a Catholic teacher's college and taught in Catholic schools. But never go to Mass anymore. I had the same questions about baptising our kids but we decided to do it. And it was lovely, I'm glad we did now. They're also going to/will go to the Catholic school. And yes I do feel a bit guilty (good old Catholic guilt) that we call ourselves Catholics but never practise...and yet there's enough of it that I like that keeps me hanging on...just.
So I guess I'm a fence sitter.
I attended Catholic church and school growing up. In my early 20s I grew increasingly unhappy with many of the Catholic statements of faith and since then have attended an Anglican church, Baptist church (for 11 years) and currently attend an Australian Christian Churches congretation.
ReplyDeleteMy children have all been dedicated (a general 'welcome to our church' style blessing). When they are old enough, they can decide whether they want to be baptised. I have a very strong faith and believe that it is important for my family, but my children will be able to choose whether they attend church. Faith is only meaningful if there is freewill involved.
I don't believe that it's possible to not influence your children with what you believe. If you are Christian (or Muslim or Jewish etc), it is obviously something you think is important and therefore you are likely to share your views with your child. The same happens if you have 'no' faith. We can't help but influence our children.
I want my children to have a strong and sustaining faith, however if they choose to follow a different path, I also want them to know that my love for them is not dependant on them making the same choices I have.
PS @Thea - 20 years on from my Catholic path, I am still struck by moments of Catholic guilt. I am even more hampered by what I like to refer to as Catholic's knee - I'm sure my creaky knees are the result of too many years on those hard wooden kneelers at church as a child. :-)
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ReplyDeleteLove hearing voices of reason in the blogging community.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing :)